How Travel Taught Me to Love My Body: Women Who Travel Podcast - Condé Nast Traveler

How Travel Taught Me to Love My Body: Women Who Travel Podcast - Condé Nast Traveler

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"Plus-size fill-in-the-blank, but especially travel, is often not seen in a glamorous way," says Women Who Travel columnist Laura Delarato on this week's podcast episode. "It's often not seen at all." But thanks to communities and social media accounts that celebrate women's bodies of all shapes and sizes taking on the world, like Fat Girls Traveling, launched by our other guest this week, Annette Richmond, that's changing.

This week, we're talking about the intersection of travel and the body positivity movement: how travel can challenge the ideas you have about yourself and the spaces that you belong (hint: you belong everywhere), teach you confidence you never knew possible, and open yourself up to new ideas to take home, too. But it's not all roses—Annette and Laura share the challenges of traveling as plus-sized women, from struggling to find travel gear in your size to facing fatphobia and size bias on vacation.

Thanks to Annette and Laura for joining us this week. And thanks as always to Brett Fuchs for engineering and mixing. To keep up with our podcast each week, subscribe to Women Who Travel on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And, if you have a minute to spare, leave a review. We’d love to hear from you. Be sure to sign up for the newsletter to keep up to date with our live episodes, meetups, and trips, too.

Read a full transcription of the episode below.

Lale Arikoglu: Hi everyone, and welcome to Women Who Travel. A podcast from Condé Nast Traveler. I'm Lale Arikoglu and with me as always is my co-host Meredith Carey.

Meredith Carey: Hello.

LA: This week we're talking to two women whose travels we followed for quite some time. Body image advocates, they've been working to make travel more accessible and inclusive of women of all shapes and sizes. You've heard from one of them before, Laura Delarato, sex and wellness writer and Women Who Travel columnist on an episode about slowing down when we travel. And joining us for the first time and calling in from Bangkok is Annette Richmond, creator of the Fat Girls Traveling Instagram. Thank you so much for joining us.

Laura Delarato: Thank you for having us.

Annette Richmond : Thank you for having us.

LA: Laura, you came in, in very cold weather of New York.

LD: Yes.

LA: Very early in the morning. Thank you. Annette, I'd say thank you, but you're calling in from 90-degree weather in Bangkok-

MC: At night, it's just delightful. I'm so jealous!

AR: Yeah, it doesn't suck. It's evening here so...

LA: But I'd love to kick off by asking you both—because from what I gather you have crossed paths on the internet before—and I'd love to know how you came across each other's work and the body positivity in travel community in general.

LD: I would say that a lot of plus-size women who are visible on the internet have some version of crossover to the point where I can know people, I'm friends with people who are in L.A. that I have never met before and it's just because we both share this common bond that most companies don't make our size, that they don't allow for us to take up space in certain areas. So we find each other through the internet and whether that's like a search or a hashtag that we all come upon each other, that becomes part of my community and then we all support each other in our own ways. Like even if it's digitally, it's the best kind of community.

AR: I would definitely agree. I feel like there is this huge sense of community online, especially for marginalized communities. So for like the fat community, I've met a ton of different fat activists who would agree that we find and create and cultivate our friendships online and maybe never even meet in real life. They might be in a whole different country or a different state. And I think that it's the same for a lot of marginalized communities with technology. It's so easy to find the community that you feel more comfortable with. Whether that be, you have a disability and you're traveling or you're a Muslim person and you're traveling and it's easy like you said, to find certain hashtags that you can find friendships and cultivate relationships with people that see the world similarly or have to face similar challenges.

MC: Annette, you created the Fat Girls Traveling Instagram in 2017, what was the impetus for creating this community that is now tens of thousands of people strong?

AR: In the beginning, I didn't really see a ton of visibility for plus-size and fat travelers. I was following a ton of different female solo travel Instagrams or like black travel Instagrams and all these different communities for travelers, but I didn't really see any of those platforms featuring plus-sized people. And I didn't see a platform dedicated for plus-sized people when I did see platforms dedicated for other marginalized people. And so I felt like that was my inspiration to create a space that only focused on fat female travelers because that's what I am and give information about traveling and give tips and have people be able to do a takeover and take you with them but also show a more stylized, more glamorous side of travel. And I wanted it to be something that was a little fashion-forward but definitely had an editorial edge.

LD: Yeah, I think there's two really big things that Annette just hit on and it's that plus-size fill-in-the-blank, especially travel often is not seen in this glamorous way. It often is not seen at all. And thank goodness for beautiful Instagram accounts like this one and having Annette in the world, there could actually be this editorial lens and show something in a really beautiful light which has actually not had a lot of light on it. And then what's also really interesting about plus-size fat-bodied people and I feel like, I don't want to speak for all of us, but I'm going to right now, is that we are hardcore, the most research people on the planet or, like we research every single thing we do.

And that's because even if you go into a gym class or if you go into a restaurant, I have to make sure that the seats are going to be available for me. Or other people who have like, my body's not going to be called out in the middle of class for not being a good body. And those things are so real that it affects my day to day all the time. Like, it's not just clothes. It's like will I be able to go on this trip and hypothetically if it rains, will I be able to find a jacket? Every little thing has to be planned. So everything about this is so beautiful because it allows for fat women and plus-sized bodies—and I use those interchangeably so everyone can feel that their identity is being heard—to know that there is someone out there that's being like, "Hey, I've done this or I'm doing this. It's really beautiful. You should try and here's why."

MC: You've written for Traveler and Women Who Travel about your specific packing strategy? How important is that to you when you travel and what goes into your thought process?

LD: I'm always very aware of not just the weather of the location in which I'm going to be, but the possible activities that might happen. So if I'm going to a place and I know that I'm going to be X-amount of distance from a clothing line that I can shop from, I have to be aware that now I'm bringing a jacket, I'm bringing a bathing suit, I'm bringing things that might not normally come together in this package of going to Iceland or going somewhere else. It's just like you're basically packing for the unexpected because the options are not usually there for you when you get to your destination and sure there are times where you can overnight things, but then there's that extra cost of having something shipped to you.

Like there's other costs to having a fat body in space, in literal space, but in the space that we are. Plus size clothing is often $15 more than straight sized clothing. There's a cost to that. Plus size women make less money than straight size women because of size bias. There's a cost to that. So it's all feeding into this negative cycle that you actually shouldn't belong here. It's crazy. I think about this all day.

LA: And kind of to that point, I mean so much about when we talk about travel, it's about taking yourself out of your comfort zone and acting spontaneously, but when the world is stopping you from having the freedom to do that, how do you, and this is a question to both of you, with your platforms, how do you reframe that conversation to still speak to that unexpectedness that comes with travel, but be like, "Okay, all right, how do we strategize for this and let ourselves feel free at the same time?"

AR: Well, I might say for me it's a little different because I've been traveling full time. I'm a digital nomad and so I've been on the road for three years now and I do come back to the States and I'll be in the States for a couple of months and I'll usually stock up on the things that I'll need when I'm on the road. But you know, depending on how long I can stay in a place and the visas there, I'll probably plan my next place based on what I have packed. I can't just jump from Asia to Europe at this time of year because I don't have warm winter clothes or a jacket or jeans or boots and those kinds of things that you would need for colder weather. And it is difficult to find those things abroad. So it definitely takes a ton of planning and just figuring out what you want to do. And then if you can't find the things that you need in a different place, some places it might be easier to get some things custom made. Like right now I'm here in Thailand and it is affordable and easy to get things custom made, or if you are in Vietnam, I was just in India a few months ago and bought some things custom made.

LD: Gosh, yeah. I just want to be a digital nomad like you. I was like, that sounds cool.

MC: This is an out-loud P.S.

LD: I was like, "Oh, that's so cool." Just everything you just said, I was like, yeah, yeah.

MC: Right. When you were talking about heavily researching trips in travel and lots of other parts of your life, and that you now have trips, why did you feel the need to take what you were doing with Fat Girls Traveling a step further and create these female-only, fat-focused trips where all the travelers are above a size 14?

AR: It was important for me to create some fat-focused trips because through the Facebook community and through my own experience I've learned that the biggest thing that keeps us from trying new things and especially taking that trip and buying that ticket is fear. Fear of the unknown and a lot of the major questions that we'll get all over the Facebook group is how fat-friendly is this city or how fat-friendly is that country? And so people want to be in a place where they feel safe and they feel like they're going on holiday, they want to be accommodated, they want to be treated like any other traveler that is going to go make memories of a lifetime. But sometimes you know that size bias is going to get the best of the people around you and people are fat-phobic and that sometimes might affect your trip.

And then also there's different levels of accessibilities. Like I just did a trip to Bali and it was difficult to find waterfalls that didn't have as many stairs. Like generally most of the waterfalls to get down to them, you're going down at least like 200 or 300 stairs just to go down. And then you have to come back up those 200, 300 stairs, there's waterfalls with more, there's one or two waterfalls with less. But depending on what you want to do and what you want to see in a specific place, if you're not going with someone who's already been there, it could be a situation of safety, you know what I mean? If you’re wanting to go and check out this waterfall, maybe not even knowing how many stairs there are and then you twist an ankle or you hurt your knee or something like this.

So it's really important for me to not only have a community like Fat Girls Traveling's Facebook community where people can ask questions, but also to create trips that focus on having it be comfortable for people of size. And making it feel like even if something happens, because I can't control the way other people react to us, like it's still a safe space for us to talk about it and to be like that sucked, that person shouldn't have treated you that way. Or stand up for each other and advocate for each other when someone is put on the spot and disrespected by another person because of their size. And all of those things did have to happen during my trip, my Bali Body Love retreat just a couple months ago. All those things had to happen. We all had to advocate for each other, support each other.

But we also had a great time and were able to find some fat-friendly Bali swings because the first time I went to Bali I wanted to get that iconic picture on the Bali swing, but the harness wouldn't fit over my waist. And so I went with a couple of friends—they were all straight-sized, they were all able to do the swing—and I just sat there and cried. I was pretty bummed out and embarrassed but not because of my body, but because I went through this whole thing and planned, got all my friends excited, they didn't even want to do it. And then I get there and I'm the only person that's not able to do it.

And so it was really exciting to do the research and find a swing that does accommodate up to 400 pounds and a place that was going to be accepting and accommodating of us. And so it's difficult and it's exciting, but I feel like people sometimes need support and they need someone to tell them you can do it. And especially if you live your life in a bigger body, certain things can be too scary to even try without having someone there to encourage you or to show you that you can do it.

LD: I just feel all of that. I feel it on a different level.

AR: Thank you. Thank you.

LD: Yeah.

AR: So that's why I'm creating these trips is because people need them. You know?

LA: And Laura, last time you were on the podcast, you spoke a little bit about how travel came to you later on in your twenties and it's been a relatively new joy to have discovered. And you write a lot about how travel has been this amazing tool to learn new things about yourself. When did you start realizing that the things that you learned on those trips you can transfer to the way you live your life back home?

LD: You're right, I spent a really long time thinking that travel wasn't for me for a lot of different reasons. And then when I found it, I realized that the person I always wanted to be always came back with me on every trip. So whether I went to Paris—and I always thought that I wasn't going to be for Paris. I always thought my body—I was thinking about this last night, it's so weird talking about it—but I always thought that Paris wasn't for girls like me. And when I say that I mean like fat girls, because I always had this assumption that Paris was petite and small, which it is. And like every coffee shop has small chairs and everything is tiny and that's awesome. But when I went to Paris, I was told multiple times that I was gorgeous, like by random people. I was like, "All right."

LA: I like this place.

LD: Oh look at Paris. Oh I see you Paris. Every place was, like my first vintage leather jacket came from Paris. I have a tattoo on my arm from Paris that the tattoo artists does not adjust his tattoos in any way, but made it specially for me to be a plus-size woman. Everything lived in this world that I thought I wasn't allowed to be in. And then when I got back I was like, "No, I'm allowed to be here, in this existence with this body and be like happy about it." And that's something I love. And then when I go to, I just, when was it? In like October, November I went to Punta Cana, Dominican Republic, and I was, even going there, I was like, "Oh my God, this might not be a space for me because everyone's in a bikini at all times and everyone's super hot."

But I went there taking all that information I had gathered from my trip to Paris and London and Texas and every place that I learned something new about myself. And I went to this beautiful place and I was like, "I'm going to wear a bikini." And no part of this feels weird to me. So it's almost as you go, you're exposing yourself to new parts of yourself that you've always wanted to become and then you finally get there. It's super fun.

LA: And I guess it speaks to that thing that when you're traveling you get to be the best version of yourself.

LD: The best version.

LA: ... and it's crazy that then when you get home you have to revert back to something else.

LD: I know, like as if that person goes away after the time you're there.

MC: Annette, you are obviously traveling full time now, but what was your relationship with travel like when you were younger and what made you make the jump to doing that full-time travel, digital nomad life?

AR : When I was younger, travel wasn't really a thing because it was something that we couldn't really afford it. I grew up in a single-parent household and my mom held down multiple jobs and it had always been something that I was going to be able to do when I got older or when I had more money or when this, when this, when that. And I stumbled into doing it more full time because I just found more resources. I found that there was a company that I could work with and go on tours, you know what I mean? Like in the States, Contiki isn't a huge thing, but abroad Contiki tours are massive and people will take them to go and see 10 different countries. That's what I did for my first trip to Europe. It was 14 days, 10 different countries, crazy. But then I also booked through another agency, which was like you paid a deposit and then you could make installments up until a week before your trip. And so from there I realized that there were more ways to make travel accessible. But before I started this, I didn't know about that. But now that I am traveling full time, I see so many people doing WWOOFing or Workaway or different ways that they can work in exchange for accommodation and exchange for food as well, which makes travel completely attainable and makes it really affordable.

LA: And Laura, as you began to travel more, and we touched on this a little bit, but how did you start to notice your relationship with your body changing the more you were out in the world?

LD: Oh, I say every single time I would come back I would just, I feel like I, and this is going to sound so cheesy, but I feel like I was just a little bit more in love with myself and that's, I know that also sounds conceited or narcissistic, but I feel like there needs to be a little bit more of that in the world, that we just need to love ourselves just a little bit more. Because it totally touches upon every single part of our life. And for me every time I went somewhere, especially by myself, I was like, "Oh I did that." It was an accomplishment and so when I got back I was like, What is stopping me from asking that person out at the bar? What is stopping me from wearing the thing that I want to wear? And what is stopping me from doing the things I want to do when I just did something that was completely, not crazy but completely out of my scope of my universe from what I thought I was ever going to be able to do.

LA: Oh it's so funny because this is sort of tangential but related.

LD: Do it!

LA: Like whenever I come back from a trip that I've really, like in a city that I've loved or I've had some sort of experience that's really resonated with me, I get back and I always want to redesign my apartment.

LD: Every time.

LA: And I want to like change my routine and I'm like, "I'm going to walk to this coffee shop in the morning before work now." And it's so funny, travel puts up this magnifying glass to your life and just shows you the bits you like and the bits that you want to change.

LD: Yeah-

AR: I think just adding onto that, being even more specific as far as just loving yourself more. I think that is a phrase that's used pretty generally. And I feel like when we put that into action, like what does loving yourself more look like and what does that feel like? I feel like it is just giving yourself a little more grace and showing up for yourself. Allowing yourself to not pick apart every decision that you've made and just being a little bit more forgiving of yourself. And I feel like when you travel, things happen. You get lost and you go the wrong way or you book a day trip and you didn't love it, but then you just get into it anyway and you find ways to be frustrated but also give yourself that grace and that allows us to grow.

And so I think it's so easy for us to say, "Oh, I'm learning to love myself a little bit more." But that is the message that I try to get out to people is like, you know, it's okay to change your mind also. Like maybe you thought you were going to go to this place and that day trip and you get there and maybe you don't love it or something happened and you're feeling down and just giving yourself the grace to change your mind or different things like that. And I feel like those are the things that make us walk away from a trip feeling like we've learned more about ourselves and seeing the strength in ourselves.

MC: I mean, I'd love to rewind it back and also get your answer to the question that we asked earlier, which is as you have traveled more in your life and now are full time, how you see your relationship with your body changing.

AR: Yeah, I definitely think that with each kind of experience that I have, I see the relationship with my body changing because with different countries and different cul- like the more I learn about a culture I can learn more about the beauty standards in that culture. I feel like with every experience that you have, you can walk away with it, seeing things differently and appreciating yourself more. And I think that specifically being able to travel and seeing the different beauty standards in different countries, it makes you a little bit more aware of, okay, well this is just what these people think is beautiful or this is what beauty is defined by to this culture or to these people. And you can look at our own culture and standards of beauty and diet culture and all that stuff. You can be a little bit more objective in your own life in a way because as you travel you see that those things change and the standards are different in different countries.

LA: And Annette you, obviously you are a pro when it comes to planning and leading trips to different places around the world. Are there any specific types of trips that you think lend themselves to self-discovery and self-care more than others?

AR: I think that the first step always is just getting yourself out of your comfort zone. So for some people that could mean not even leaving the country, you know what I mean? Maybe that could be someone from the East Coast taking a trip to the West Coast, to California. Maybe they're going to be challenged to wear a bathing suit in public, whereas maybe they grew up in a place where they don't necessarily have to get into a bathing suit and it's not the weather for that kind of stuff or for shorts or different things like that. And that is going to challenge them in a way—and in the end, hopefully help their self-esteem and help them become a little bit more confident in themselves because they're challenging themselves in a way that maybe they wouldn't challenge themselves at home.

And then there's also going out of the country and especially being in a place where no one speaks the language as you do. And having to navigate a completely different culture and country without even speaking the language and having to do that. But I would say generally, whether that's leaving your town, leaving your state, leaving your country, getting out of your comfort zone is one of the things that is really going to challenge you and make you grow. And so that's why it's important for me to do these trips. And I think that, I don't want to speak in a way that's only like, "The only way you can learn about yourself and grow is if you're going to Italy or if you're going to Europe." Because really, as fat people, we're challenged just leaving our house everyday. Just going to the grocery store you might be combated with fatphobia or someone treating you horribly because of your size and you don't necessarily have to leave the country to do that, and so those challenges are everywhere for us.

LA: Laura, have there been any particular, obviously we've talked about Paris, particular types of trips that you've taken, which you felt have had that result?

LD: I had this really interesting October of this past year where I left a previous job and then immediately went upstate and spent three days upstate with friends and even though that wasn't outside of the country, it wasn't even outside of the state, it was this really beautiful experience where I was like, "You just need to slow down. You need to read a book and you need to take in the scenery."

And understanding that was not going to be a space where I was going to have to worry about my body, but it was also a time for me to shut it all down and to be quiet about it. So it didn't have to consume every single moment of my life because it does consume every single moment of my life. And then to just come back and be in my own routine and not have it be weighted on me so much. So that was incredibly transformative and I didn't have to leave the state.

Like Annette said, the availability for fatphobia day-to-day is rampant. Like the other day someone just called me fat in the street and I was like, "Okay, well I'm on 23rd Street and I'm just trying to go to Cha Cha Matcha. I don't know what the issue is here." And it's like that happens all the time. And so when you leave the country, when you do something that's different, that fear raises. But it's just sometimes really nice to do something where you don't even have to worry about it and you can come back and just be like, "This isn't a thing for me at all. It doesn't need to be a thing for me at all times."

MC: And I think when you guys are talking about challenging yourself or when we're all talking about challenging yourself, I think that something that we've discussed recently that also is a part of a story that you wrote about that trip upstate is that you can take one step forward or two steps forward with a buddy or in a space that makes you also feel comfortable in the challenge. Because I know that the quiet was really hard for you upstate. And you know, we were talking to another Woman Who Travel contributor, Candace Rainey about how she has tried really hard to travel on her own and she just doesn't enjoy it. So she's like, "I still want to travel. I'm just going to make sure that I am putting myself out of my comfort zone with a friend because I actually genuinely enjoy that more than traveling by myself."

So if you are trying to challenge yourself and you're like, "Oh I want to do this thing, but the way that everyone else is doing it is not a way that I feel comfortable," do it the way that you are going to enjoy yourself. Because there's a difference between putting yourself out of your comfort zone and then actually having a bad time.

LA: And I think people talk so much about putting yourself out of your comfort zone and ultimately travel is supposed to be fun, but if you're not having a good time then why are you making yourself do it? Do something that works for you.

LD: Isn't that interesting? We are constantly just okay with being uncomfortable in a way that's not helpful—like as humans and especially as women. It's like when you really have to pee and then you just don't pee because you're working so hard. I know this has nothing to do with travel, but I just think about this all the time where you're just like, "I'm just going to finish this one email before I go use the bathroom," or whatever it is. And you're just used to it. And I'm like, "Is that fun?"

LA: Well, no, no, this is such an interesting point.

LD: It's such a thing.

LA: Because there's been times when I've been with my partner or with good guy friends and we're hanging out and in the middle of something they'll be like, "I'm sorry, I have to go pee. It's too much." And I'm like, "I've been sitting here in agony for three hours. It never occurred to me that I should make someone wait for me so I can go to the loo.”

LD: Isn't that insane? And I think about that in conjunction with travel where I really love to travel by myself. I think it's really fun. But if I find myself doing something that I like short, there's very much a difference between doing something that's out of your comfort zone that allows you to grow and doing something out of your comfort zone that you genuinely hate and cannot do. It's like you have one life, do you need to be pissed at this one moment and remember that you had to pee so bad?

MC: I think it goes back to what you were saying earlier, Annette, about giving yourself the grace to change your mind, which is if you don't like what you're doing, exit that situation.

AR: Yeah.

MC: I think that's so true of travel and I just, that's a big takeaway.

LD: Yeah, but I use a bathroom reference.

AR: I agree—and I feel like there's not just one way to travel. There's no wrong way or right way to do it. You get to create your own kind of travel experience. So whether that be with a partner, or with a friend, or with a group, or by yourself, or a combination of all of those things. Like I've been on the road for about five months, but part of that has been with a group of people, part of it has been with travel friends that I've made years ago that are meeting me in different places, and some of it is new friends that I've met and I recently met this female traveler, this solo female traveler. She decided to go down to Phuket and I'm still here in Bangkok and she messaged me on Instagram and is like, "I'm kind of hating Phuket, should I come back to Bangkok, where should I go?"

Like her next plan was Chiang Mai, and I told her maybe just, she had planned to do like an island tour. I'm like, "Well maybe try the island tour because maybe there's an island that you prefer over Phuket." She started in Bangkok and I met her here and the second stop was Phuket and she was going to throw in the towel and be like, "This just isn't for me." And now she's stuck on one of those islands. She's loving it down there. So she's just trying different things in her mind. She had a certain schedule and a certain itinerary for herself and she switched that up a little bit and now she's enjoying it a lot more. And so sometimes it's like you just have to give yourself permission to do something different. And sometimes you have to give yourself permission to do the same thing.

LA: Sort of like you should try everything because you'll never know. But once you find out if you hate it, it's totally fine to quit it.

MC: Well this feels like one of the most perfect places to wrap up today. But I want to ask one more question, which is what female travelers would you recommend our listeners follow on Instagram? And I'm going to ask you, Annette, first.

AR: I have a list of three female travelers that I'm obsessed with. And the first one I would say is @oneikatraveller. I just learned so much from her daily. She's been in the travel game for years, probably over a decade at this point. And she's making so much great content with travel shows on Facebook and Travel Channel and she's killing it. But she also allows you to grow with her. Like she just gave birth and so she's talking about that and figuring out traveling with the newborn and all of that kind of stuff. And so I just think that she's so graceful and I don't know, I feel like we all, people that follow her, we feel like we really get to know her because she just always keeps it real but in such a classy way and just gives you such a deep look into what is really like to be a content creator in the travel space as a black woman. But she's also at the very, very top of her game where she, like I said, has TV shows and all these amazing things, but she's still totally relatable. So I love, Oneika.

And then I would also say Dr. Keona from @hownottotravellikeabasicbitch. She is an incredible educator. She's constantly shedding light on different marginalized communities and teaching her audience different things about different communities. And she has a podcast now as well, where recently they were talking about like who can say that they're a local and, you know what I mean? Just so many different things that challenges the way that you think and challenges the ways that you travel. And I feel like that's really important. We were talking about comfort and I feel like sometimes, especially with having that American passport and that passport privilege that we can get comfortable in the way that we travel and not really think about how that might affect the places that we're traveling to.

And then the last one I would say is a good friend of mine, @voyaging_vagabond, Chantel. She just recently shared a story but that is the best thing about her is that every post that she shares is a look into her travels and a whole story and you feel like you're right there with her. Right now she's in Portugal and she was talking about how she went to this restaurant and it was family owned and by the end of it she felt like a part of the family. And I'm reading it like, "I'm a part of the family too,” because just the way that she tells the story. I think that those are the things that I look for when I'm following someone is like, "Do I connect with them on a real level? Am I learning something from them and are they captivating me in a story that makes me feel like I'm traveling with them?"

MC: Laura, who have you got to share?

LD: Okay, so I have two, and I care about both these people very much and one of them is my best friend, @erikaraeowen. I know it's, I am a biased person, but I will say, what I will give Erica credit for is that Erica never started as a person who thought travel was going to be a part of her life. Like I think it was definitely part of her life in a sense that she did travel growing up, but it wasn't a thing that she thought she was going to focus on. And then as she just kept writing, it was a thing that, you could tell that she cared so much about every little detail about where she traveled to the point where she would look at one dish and think about this dish in a beautiful way. And then she'll put it on her Instagram. And I love that about her. I think that she knows how to take the minute details and understand your connection to it. And that's what I love. And then my, I mean also I just love her and she's the best.

MC: And if you're going to Iceland you should just DM-

LD: Just DM Erika

MC: ... and she'll send you an itinerary.

LD: Dear, dear goodness. Like it's insane. And then my second one who isn't typically a travel writer blogger person, but it's someone who I found a lot of travel inspiration from, which is the fashion blogger Kelly Brown, who I love. And the reason why I say Kelly Brown is because Kelly started as a beauty/fashion blogger, did a lot of Instagram—her Instagram handle is, I think @itsmekellieb. And she also does the hashtag #AndIGetDressed, and she was one of the first people who I saw for a really long time take these beautiful elaborate trips and to be in the pool in a bikini as a plus-size woman. And it was one of the first experiences I had with that. And I was like, "This is someone that I genuinely need to learn from." And so I also love when people are not a typical travel blogger or whatever, but they jump into that space. You can learn so much from them. So those are my two recs and they are very special to me. So yeah.

AR: I love Kelly B, too. She's awesome.

LD: The best. Every outfit is amazing.

MC: I was scrolling-

AR: Killing it, yeah!

MC: ... through my feed and yeah, I would like to be in every photo that she... I will put the links to all of those accounts in the show notes. So if you want some travel inspo definitely scroll down to be able to find those and Annette where can people follow you on Instagram and social media to keep up with your travels?

AR: So my personal platform is @fromannettewithlove and my website, my personal blog, is fromannette.com and that's where you can go to follow me with my personal travel. I talk about everything from shopping to dating to just things I'm obsessed with to other marginalized communities. It's everything me and then the Fat Girls Traveling platform basically amplifies and features other female fat travelers and that on Instagram is Fat Girls Traveling. We have a private Facebook community for fat girls only and that is also Fat Girls Traveling. And then we also have a blog called the Fat Girls Guide.

MC: Amazing. And Laura?

LD: You can follow me on Instagram at @heylauraheyyy with three Y's at the end because the one Y wasn't available. And I do most of my travel work or at least Instagram pieces through there. And then if you just search my cool name you can find all my cool writing essentially on my website, lauradelarato.com.

LA: And you have a newsletter as well.

LD: I do have a newsletter. It's on hiatus right now because new year, take a break for a month, you know? Just let yourself live. I do have a newsletter called 1-800-Hey-Laura. And you can subscribe to it at 1800heylaura.com and it's about sex and body image, and how those two connect to make you a more confident person and every single edition we just basically talk about something cool and how you can be an awesome version of yourself.

MC: Amazing. Well follow @womenwhotravel on Instagram as well, and you can find new episodes of the podcast every Tuesday. Yes. I know this episode is coming out on a Wednesday, but every Tuesday, and read all of our stories at womenwhotravel.com! We'll talk to you next week.

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2020-01-22 11:01:52Z
https://www.cntraveler.com/story/how-travel-taught-me-to-love-my-body-women-who-travel-podcast
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